Post by Mr42 on Sept 25, 2014 11:43:37 GMT
So, after posting up about Astral Projection, the trance band in a different thread, and I'm now listening to them, I decided to pass some time at work whilst it's dead, in reading up about Astral Projection, the 'phenomenon'.
It may be worth listening to this whilst reading about it, just to create the right environment!
Despite being someone into all this stuff, and the ideas of meditation and spiritual thinking, and education and expanding of your mind, I don't think it's an actual real 'physical' thing that can happen.
I don't believe in souls, spirits and all that sort of thing, not in the sense of it being a physical entity that can leave your body, that disappears when you die, that can 'come back to haunt' or 'drift'. I believe people have an essence about them, that can be enhanced, damaged, changed, due to life experiences. That 'feeling inside', that part of you that drives you to do things, or not do things if you feel broken.
After having a full read of it on the good ol' Wikipedia, it's interesting to see how all the different cultures and religions and groups of people view this.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection
A couple of the choice paragraphs from the page...
The subtle bodies, and their associated planes of existence, form an essential part of the esoteric systems that deal with astral phenomena. In the neo-platonism of Plotinus, for example, the individual is a microcosm ("small world") of the universe (the macrocosm or "great world"). "The rational soul...is akin to the great Soul of the World" while "the material universe, like the body, is made as a faded image of the Intelligible". Each succeeding plane of manifestation is causal to the next, a world-view called emanationism; "from the One proceeds Intellect, from Intellect Soul, and from Soul - in its lower phase, or that of Nature - the material universe".
I like the idea of each person being a 'small world' within a huge world. If you think of the idea of our planets being something that orbits and encircles other planets, you can definitely see how that makes sense, we all encircle each others' worlds and existences, all at different speeds, all causing different things to happen.
Other experients may describe a domain that has no parallel to any known physical setting. Environments may be populated or unpopulated, artificial, natural or abstract, and the experience may be beatific, horrific or neutral. A common Theosophical belief is that one may access a compendium of mystical knowledge called the Akashic records. In many accounts the experiencer correlates the astral world with the world of dreams. Some even report seeing other dreamers enacting dream scenarios unaware of their wider environment.
That idea is a bit mental, whilst you're dreaming you can enter other people's dreams and watch what they're doing. That is, of course, utterly impossible, and would just be another episode of your own dream, rather than transgressing on someone else's, but, it's an interesting concept. I would be surprised if a prog rock band hasn't done an album about something like that! 'The dream leapers'.
I also love the idea of being able to access some kind of mystical knowledge whilst in your dream-like state (which I firmly believe that's all that Astral Projection is).
Now onto the 'back in reality' bit...
Scientific reception
There is no scientific evidence that astral projection as an objective phenomenon exists. Robert Todd Carroll writes that the main evidence to support claims of astral travel is anecdotal and comes "in the form of testimonials of those who claim to have experienced being out of their bodies when they may have been out of their minds."
According to Bob Bruce of the Queensland Skeptics Association, astral projection is "just imagining", or "a dream state".
The psychologist Donovan Rawcliffe has written that astral projection can be explained by delusion, hallucination and vivid dreams.
I find that amusing that there is a Skeptics Association just for one city / state. Anyone want to set up the Leeds Skeptics Assocation?! Haha. What he says though is exactly what I think.
Weirdly enough, I believe I've done this.
I've dabbled, shall we say, over the years (but not any more), with various brain-altering / enhancing ideas, potions, experiments. I've done a lot of sleep related experiments, got to the point of hallucinating due to insomnia / sleep deprivation (forced and enforced on me). I've been able to control my dreams in the past, and be more aware of their lucidity. I am more a person of logic, Science, spirituality (not in the religious sense, not even a tiny bit), so I know it was in a trance-like, dream-like state, but whilst fully awake and aware. I think it's whilst you're awake that it's more likely to feel like astral projection, or like something of a soul taking a journey, or whatever you want to call it. It does feel quite alien, and it's achieving that perfect moment of relaxation and clarity, which is alien in itself, given how hectic, stressful and demanding life is.
It's definitely an interesting read and concept though.
Where do you stand on it? Scientifically? Religiously? Spiritually?
It may be worth listening to this whilst reading about it, just to create the right environment!
Despite being someone into all this stuff, and the ideas of meditation and spiritual thinking, and education and expanding of your mind, I don't think it's an actual real 'physical' thing that can happen.
I don't believe in souls, spirits and all that sort of thing, not in the sense of it being a physical entity that can leave your body, that disappears when you die, that can 'come back to haunt' or 'drift'. I believe people have an essence about them, that can be enhanced, damaged, changed, due to life experiences. That 'feeling inside', that part of you that drives you to do things, or not do things if you feel broken.
After having a full read of it on the good ol' Wikipedia, it's interesting to see how all the different cultures and religions and groups of people view this.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection
A couple of the choice paragraphs from the page...
The subtle bodies, and their associated planes of existence, form an essential part of the esoteric systems that deal with astral phenomena. In the neo-platonism of Plotinus, for example, the individual is a microcosm ("small world") of the universe (the macrocosm or "great world"). "The rational soul...is akin to the great Soul of the World" while "the material universe, like the body, is made as a faded image of the Intelligible". Each succeeding plane of manifestation is causal to the next, a world-view called emanationism; "from the One proceeds Intellect, from Intellect Soul, and from Soul - in its lower phase, or that of Nature - the material universe".
I like the idea of each person being a 'small world' within a huge world. If you think of the idea of our planets being something that orbits and encircles other planets, you can definitely see how that makes sense, we all encircle each others' worlds and existences, all at different speeds, all causing different things to happen.
Other experients may describe a domain that has no parallel to any known physical setting. Environments may be populated or unpopulated, artificial, natural or abstract, and the experience may be beatific, horrific or neutral. A common Theosophical belief is that one may access a compendium of mystical knowledge called the Akashic records. In many accounts the experiencer correlates the astral world with the world of dreams. Some even report seeing other dreamers enacting dream scenarios unaware of their wider environment.
That idea is a bit mental, whilst you're dreaming you can enter other people's dreams and watch what they're doing. That is, of course, utterly impossible, and would just be another episode of your own dream, rather than transgressing on someone else's, but, it's an interesting concept. I would be surprised if a prog rock band hasn't done an album about something like that! 'The dream leapers'.
I also love the idea of being able to access some kind of mystical knowledge whilst in your dream-like state (which I firmly believe that's all that Astral Projection is).
Now onto the 'back in reality' bit...
Scientific reception
There is no scientific evidence that astral projection as an objective phenomenon exists. Robert Todd Carroll writes that the main evidence to support claims of astral travel is anecdotal and comes "in the form of testimonials of those who claim to have experienced being out of their bodies when they may have been out of their minds."
According to Bob Bruce of the Queensland Skeptics Association, astral projection is "just imagining", or "a dream state".
The psychologist Donovan Rawcliffe has written that astral projection can be explained by delusion, hallucination and vivid dreams.
I find that amusing that there is a Skeptics Association just for one city / state. Anyone want to set up the Leeds Skeptics Assocation?! Haha. What he says though is exactly what I think.
Weirdly enough, I believe I've done this.
I've dabbled, shall we say, over the years (but not any more), with various brain-altering / enhancing ideas, potions, experiments. I've done a lot of sleep related experiments, got to the point of hallucinating due to insomnia / sleep deprivation (forced and enforced on me). I've been able to control my dreams in the past, and be more aware of their lucidity. I am more a person of logic, Science, spirituality (not in the religious sense, not even a tiny bit), so I know it was in a trance-like, dream-like state, but whilst fully awake and aware. I think it's whilst you're awake that it's more likely to feel like astral projection, or like something of a soul taking a journey, or whatever you want to call it. It does feel quite alien, and it's achieving that perfect moment of relaxation and clarity, which is alien in itself, given how hectic, stressful and demanding life is.
It's definitely an interesting read and concept though.
Where do you stand on it? Scientifically? Religiously? Spiritually?
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